An Interview with Laurie Conrad by Diana Souza.

Q: Laurie, talk to us about the importance of making dreams as significant to us as the events in our waking lives.

A: Well, I don't know if I would really agree with that. I think there are certain experiences that we can have while we are in dream state that are true experiences, and some of them are even mystical experiences - but I wouldn't say that is true of all our dream-state experience.

Some dreams are more than ordinary dreams. And these I would say can be as, or even more valuable than our ordinary waking state experience.

What I would call ordinary or psychological dreams are more personal, individual experience. We are normally not in a shared consciousness for our dreams. Waking state consciousness is a shared experience - & for that reason, in my view, more valuable than an ordinary dream. This shared, material reality that we live in is given to us by the Divine - that is why we all perceive the same world around us. And this shared reality follows certain laws - for instance the sun rises & sets. Trees do not stand on one corner today and then move a few blocks north overnight. In our psychological dreams - our reality is personal, our own.

Basically: I think there are what I would call ordinary, psychological dreams, and then there are other experiences that we can have when asleep. In these times we can actually go to another realm or go to other places on this earth without our physical bodies being present. Saint Padre Pio would probably call it an extension of mind. I think many people have these experiences, they just are not aware of it. They think they had an ordinary run-of-the-mill, what I would call an ordinary psychological dream. But what might have happened, is that they actually went to another place on earth while in dream state. And if they ever later visit that town or building or street while in waking state reality, they will recognize the people and the buildings and streets and so on.

There are other experiences we can have while in this special consciousness when we are asleep. We can have visits from higher beings, divine beings, or people that we love that have died and left the earth. And these, in my mind, and in my experience, are true meetings.

There are certain qualities to these true experiences that we can have while in dream state, that seem to be true for everyone and for every experience. Many people have come to me with what they think are nightmares, and in my opinion they were actual visits to a lower realm. Others have had dreams in which someone they love who had died appeared to them in a dream and it comforted them. From how they described their dream, it was clear to me that they actually did meet with that person, it was not an ordinary dream. I tell people: If you are not clairvoyant, your loved ones who are now in other realms might visit you when you are in dream state. In my experience, some of those "dreams" feel more real than our experiences in waking state.

Q: Many of the psychological issues we are trying to unravel are probably pretty tangled up in the depths of our subconscious mind. They are very hard to reach with the rational, waking thought processes. Would you say that some of our dreams are possibly providing us with a shortcut to our subconscious?

A: Yes, I definitely would. And I think that aspect of dreams has been thoroughly explored by others far more trained in psychology than I: psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, dream workers and so on. Unraveling the subconscious is not the aim of my book. Others have done a far better job than I could ever do. So the aim of this book is not to discuss or analyze what I would call psychological dreams.

But yes, to answer your question, definitely. I think dreams always bring some kind of message to us, either from our own subconscious or some higher consciousness. Sometimes however, these so-called "dreams" are actual visits to other realms. Or actual messages from beings in other realms, for instance people that we love who have died. Some people might call them out-of-body dreams, but there are other sorts of dreams that come under that heading that most people have not examined. I might say we enter some aspect of clairvoyant consciousness for these sorts of dreams. And I think the messages are often very, very helpful, clarifying and important. And for many reasons.

In this particular dream state consciousness, we can receive verbal messages, we can help others in other realms or on other places on earth - and we can learn much.

Q: Well, it's a subject that has been deeply treated by our modern psychological sciences. You're talking about it from a mystic's point of view. Aren't you really saying that we are reaching another consciousness in these dreams?

A: In these more mystical experiences or clairvoyant experiences while in dream state, I am not sure that we are dealing with the subconscious. I believe it is a different consciousness, although not ordinary dream consciousness. Sometimes we use a subtle body, sometimes it is just extension of mind. Well, ultimately it is all the extension of mind, but this interview is not the place for that topic.

Q: So we're accessing a consciousness that we can't get to in our waking state?

A: That most people cannot get to in waking state consciousness, clairvoyants can. But if you are not clairvoyant, those avenues are made available to everyone when they are in dream state. In my opinion, everyone on earth has had at least one experience in dream state or sleep state that is not just a psychological dream, not just a product of their own personal psychology. In these special "dreams" someone from another realm might come and give us a message, even just a "hello" and a smile. But the dreamer dismisses it as only an ordinary dream. Sometimes our friends, or even enemies still on earth come to us in our dreams and give us true messages - but we dismiss them as only ordinary dreams, i.e. our own thoughts.

I always tell people: if someone you love has died, and you cannot feel their presence, if you are not clairvoyant - then most likely they will appear to you in dreams.

Q: Laurie, I know you're a fan of Star Wars. Do you believe there really is a dark side?

A: Yes, definitely.

As a clairvoyant, I can say that within our conventional reality, we do have these dark influences and beings around us, whether we are aware of them or not. God allows it, and it is an unmanifest war. It is the real war that we are fighting here on earth.

These dark or negative beings do not ultimately exist. They only arise within polarity. The essence of our universe is Divine. The battle between the Good, the Light, virtue - and Evil, Darkness, negativity, the Devil and his cohorts - does not arise until the polarity of manifestation. To say it another way, these opposites that we find in our universe, i.e. good/bad, light/dark, red/green, here/there - these exist only in the material universes. The substratum of all universes is unbroken Divinity, Light. Therefore, these devils or evil beings are not ultimately Real. Only God is Ultimately Real.

It doesn't really matter where the darkness resides or where it comes from - it does exist in conventional reality, the reality we humans perceive. And it doesn't matter if we live in a Hell of our own making or one ready made and waiting for us - it will be terrible suffering either way.

Q: Have you ever seen Hell?

A: I would say that I have certainly been to very low realms. I am not sure that I would survive visiting the Hell realms.

Q: What should we do if we think we are in the presence of a dark being?

A: Refuse them. Say your favorite prayer or think about a beautiful waterfall - distract your mind. And if you can do that, in general, these beings will leave, they will give up and go somewhere else.

Dark beings cannot make you accept the temptations put on your path, or in your mind. We always have the free will to refuse them.

Q: Getting back to the topic of nightmares: you talk about nightmares not necessarily being just dreams. What do you mean by that?

A: Often people have come to me with their nightmares and asked if I have any insight into their meaning because they cannot understand the meaning behind the dream. If there is a psychological meaning, it is not apparent to them. In my opinion, often they have actually gone to a lower realm while they were asleep.

There are many different realms. When Christ said "My Father's house has many mansions," I think He was talking about all these different realms. They are almost countless. In general, the lower realms are very chaotic and the beings there are living out their lower nature. If we go there in our sleep, it can be horrifying. Terrible and strange events happen to us, nothing makes sense. It is chaotic, horrible people are there, and we wake up and we say "Oh, my God, my psychology is a mess. What in the world is that dream trying to tell me?"

Well, I believe it really is not a psychological dream. It is not trying to tell you anything about your psychology except: don't visit that realm again because that realm and its beings are always going to be that way.

Q: What do you mean the realm will always be like that?

A: It is the nature of the realm itself. The lower realms are always going to be lower realms. And the nature of the realm will not change. Hopefully, many of those beings will graduate to a higher realm. But the realm itself will always contain the same kind of activity and beings.

Q: And you have even said that several people that you know have been to the same realms?

A: Yes. And the descriptions of those realms were almost identical.

Q: Now we are talking about nightmares, but you have also described some beautiful realms that you, and your acquaintances and friends have visited. In fact, you and I shared a dream visit to another realm.

A: Actually, you and I went to the same place on earth, on the same night - years before we knew each other in this waking state reality. It was pretty astonishing to discover that we had both been to the same "dream" party so many years ago... It certainly is an interesting example of shared dreams.

Q: You don't believe in death, do you?

A No, death does not exist. Not as we think of it. The body dies, but the soul continues, we continue. We continue living in other realms, in other "mansions" as Christ called them. In that sense, the soul is immortal, eternal.

Q: Would you further explain the difference between what you call ordinary, psychological dreams and actual visits to other realms?

A: I will try. I am not saying that psychological dreams do not have value. I am saying there is another sort of experience we can have while in sleep state, where we will actually visit another realm. And that realm exists outside of us and our personal psychology. What I call an ordinary dream is the product of our own personal psychology and the memories stored in our subconscious.

Q: Sort of like brain static? An ordinary dream, it's sort of like static in your brain?

A: Well, often an ordinary dream is trying to tell us something important that we cannot consciously face or retrieve in waking state consciousness. But, this ordinary dream is taking information that we have stored in our own vehicle, from our own personal history here on earth.

Q: Our "vehicle" meaning the body?

A: The body, which includes the brain. Whereas, in these other experiences, we are going to realms that are self-existent outside of ourselves. Whether we ever visit that realm or not, it exists. Depending on which realm we visit, we will either mistakenly think that we had a horrible, inexplicable nightmare - or a very pleasant, beautiful dream. I think it is important to distinguish between these two sorts of dreams, because they should be analyzed differently.

Also. we should not to go to those lower realms while in dream state. Sometimes we get there by accident perhaps, but more often than not, we are going there because we are curious or because we want to help. In my experience, we cannot help the beings there on these visits. We can help them better by just praying for them.

Q: I guess there's no conscious way to avoid going there in a nightmare though, right?

A: I think we can avoid going there. Most often, as I have said, we go there because we are curious or because we want to help the beings there. Hopefully this interview can help convince people to not be so curious about the lower realms, or subconsciously want to go to the lower realms. Frankly, the experiences we have there are never pleasant and always fruitless.

The best way to help the beings in those lower realms is just to pray for them. You don't have to know who they are, just ask that your prayers be sent towards all the beings in those lower realms. Catholics would say that we should pray for the souls in Purgatory.

Q: And what about going to the higher realms in dreams consciously? Is there any chance we could precipitate going to some higher realms when we dream?

A Yes. We go where our aspirations and thoughts lead us. If you are thinking about Divine beings during the day, you have a better chance of visiting them while in dream state, because that is where your aspiration is, that is where your heart is. That is where your waking state thoughts are. If you are clairvoyant, you might have more control over it, but not always. I have been to all sorts of places, and I have no idea how I got there, even though I am clairvoyant. But yes, I think your aspiration and your understanding of how these realms operate can help you.

Q: And would you say that dreams in general are the most reliable path to our subconscious?

A: I would say that there are many ways of getting to truth. Either truth about ourselves or about the universe. Or beyond this universe, to ultimate Reality. And I would say that all dreams are given to us for a very good reason.

Q: Would you say these special, more mystical dreams, are one way for people to get to the higher knowledge?

A: It is one way. And certainly it is a way to make contact with people that you love that have gone on to other realms. I think it is important for all of us to feel the continuity of that love from heart to heart, human heart to human heart, soul to soul - or even cat heart to human heart. There are cats and dogs I certainly hope to see again some day in a higher realm. This deep connection with our fellow creatures is so important to us, that if that relationship seems to be broken by death, it can be devastating.

Therefore, if you have these special meetings, I think it does make a difference to know that they are a true meeting and not just a dream. Not just for the sake of truth, but also for our human psychology. It is very important for us all to know that the connection soul to soul always exists, eternally. That understanding and knowledge gives us a base to stand on in our daily lives, so that we can accomplish our work here on earth.

Q: What are "shared dreams"?

A: Well, that is only my terminology, I have never read anyone else's work on the subject.

Q: What do you make of this phenomenon of shared dreams?

A: I think one thing these experiences are telling us, is that true Reality is not entirely the way we think it is. Time and space are not exactly what we think they are.

For instance, my friend Inger's dream about the little boy in England... She could describe that street corner to you. And if you went to London, you would find that street corner, because she really was there.

Or your dream about Cornell. The campus and the buildings in your dream looked exactly as they do in waking state reality - but you had never been to Ithaca or Cornell at the time of the dream.

What does that tell us about time and space? How could you be on the Cornell campus in your dream years before you came to Ithaca or saw a photograph of Cornell? What does that tell us about the nature of our own soul or mind or consciousness - or our perception in general? How did you get to Cornell, in the middle of the night, when you were asleep on your bed? Who are you truly? If you are the body, then who went to the Cornell campus that night in your dream? How can we possibly be only this physical body, if we can do these things?

Q: Yes, and I had never been to Ithaca when I had that dream.

A: These experiences can help us to think beyond ordinary reality and the identity we have with the body, thinking that we are this body instead of identifying with the soul.

Sometimes these dreams are prophetic, they will tell us of the future. Or they will bring us messages from other realms. Or they will take us to other places across this earth and show us what is happening there. And, more often than not, we will just dismiss them as ordinary dreams. And so we miss the true meaning these "dreams" are trying to give us.

In these special "dreams" we can go to other, higher realms, gathering experiences, gathering knowledge.

Q: So dreams are visitations?

A: They can be.. I would call those special "dreams" true experiences, actual experiences. Not ordinary dreams. And I think it is important to differentiate between the two.

You should not analyze these special dreams in the same way you would an ordinary dream. If we want to get the most out of our dream lives, then I think that it is important to know how to correctly analyze these "dreams" that are actual meetings.

Q: So people can get messages from their loved ones from other realms while in dream state?

A: Yes. Non-clairvoyants as well.. And if people refuse to accept and acknowledge that it was a true experience, not just a product of their own imagination - first, it is a disservice to their loved one. It also unfairly robs the person who received the message of the peace and the...

Q: Consolation?

A: The consolation that they would receive. You also might say that we are turning our back on the soul.

We can also help other people on earth while we are asleep. My friend Inger saved a life while in sleep state, a small boy in London. And I believe that we are all capable of helping others while we are asleep - and do help them, people that we know or people across the world that we have never met. We go where we are needed. If you are a good, loving person, you will do good deeds while in sleep state. If you are a criminal, you will help other criminals. So it is doubly important to concentrate on our spiritual lives, and develop virtue.

Often when people are rescued from a disaster, they will say that they felt a loving presence near them, or they felt much calmer than they thought was possible. If it is an event announced in all the newspapers, then many people are praying for them. But then there are also more private dangers and tragic events. And I believe that kind souls, ordinary people, are probably going there and helping in their sleep, whispering something comforting in their ear or holding them, trying to console them in some way.

Is there a way to prove this? Well, yes, there have been instances. I once read about a little girl in Europe who helped soldiers while she was asleep. She was about three years old during one of the World Wars, now I don't remember which war. This little girl would wake up in the morning and tell her parents about the men she had helped, and describe the trenches and the battle. They thought she was just dreaming, or making it up. But after the war was over, a soldier knocked on their door. He had come to thank the little girl. She had told him her name and where she lived. The parents, of course, were astonished. So you would have to say that yes, there are proofs. It is very sad that we need proofs. That people do not realize how much we can accomplish just through our own love and - for our fellow creatures.

Q: I think Carlos Castaneda also referred to it as lucid dreaming. It's about being conscious in your dreams. Conscious enough to acknowledge dream as an experience equal in importance to anything that happens during your waking life. And that we should integrate the two, that they should be equal, that you could be learning at night in your dreams. And I believe that Jung and other psychologists also refer to lucid dreaming.

A: I have never read Carlos Castaneda, so I cannot say whether he and I are speaking of the same thing. If by "lucid dreaming" you mean that you are aware that you are dreaming, and might even be able to change the outcome of the dream - no, it is not the same thing as what I am calling an actual experience.

Q: I have a repeating dream about you. I always dream that I come to see you and you are living in the same house. It's about three stories tall, on a hill with a beautiful sunset view. I'm often there for sunset. We are apparently living a colorful, meaningful life together in another realm.

A It can be worthwhile to examine repeating dreams. Especially if the house always looks the same from one visit to the next, if the house is always facing in the same direction, the same environs, the same furnishings, the windows and interior rooms always placed the same. The same people living there each time, with others coming and going, as would happen here on earth. It could very well be that we are meeting in a house that exists either here on earth or in another realm.

Years ago a friend stayed overnight, when I was still living in the little house on Buffalo Street. The next morning my friend said: "I had the most vivid dream about a blond woman. Who is she?" I said: "I dreamt about her as well. That's my singer, Louise McConnell. She lives in California now." My friend said: "She looked terrible." And she looked terrible in my dream too. In the "dream" Louise was asking me for healing and help. I was very worried. With good reason, as it turns out - she had just been diagnosed with cancer. My friend, who had never met her, never heard of her - apparently shared my dream of her - or rather, Louise appeared to her as well.

Q: Just before she found out about her cancer?

A: No, it was just after Louise had gotten the news from her doctor. I was told about her condition, in this reality, by a mutual friend a few weeks later.

Many years earlier, I had "dreamed" about Louise for months before I actually met her in waking state reality. I had been to her house so many times in these dreams, that when I finally walked in the front door, I knew where everything was in the house.

I have been especially fortunate in that most of my clairvoyant and supernatural experiences have been validated in some way. Either by other people or later events. Some things can never be validated, while we are still in the body, and many people never have that confirmation.